I talked to pro-choice and pro-life women at a pro-choice march—this is what they said
Updated: 4:05pm 06/06/2022
On June 4, a pro-choice march occurred in Lawrence, Kansas with a gathering starting at South Park. The march was in response to the “Value Them Both” Constitutional Amendment (HCR 5003) that Kansans will be voting on August 2. According to kslegislature.org the bill
“would state the Kansas Constitution does not require government funding of abortion and does not create or secure a right to abortion. Further, the language would state, to the extent permitted by the U.S. Constitution, the people of Kansas, through their elected state representatives and senators, may pass laws regarding abortion, including, but not limited to, laws that account for circumstances of pregnancy resulting from rape or incest, or circumstances of necessity when necessary to save the life of the mother.”
With concerns from both pro-choice and pro-life Kansans, I attended the march to hear their opinions regarding the issue of abortion.
Ian Brannan: “Why are you pro-choice?”
Chair of the Douglas County Democrats Pat Willer: “I think it’s a very important right that women and their families and their doctors need to be able to control. There are already regulations on the books in Kansas that do that. There’s a lot of misinformation out there that says this is a haven for late term abortions and that’s just not true. It’s not supported by the laws or the data. One of the things that I believe strongly is that responsible choices are being made by people. No one should be forced to have a child who perhaps came from a rape victim or an incest victim. Those are the kinds of extremist laws that we’re seeing. Not everybody who will vote no on August 2 is pro-abortion, but they are in favor of people being able to make informed choices for their own benefit, and this is just too extreme. There’s already a bill pre-filed. They tried to pull it because they didn’t want people to know, but it’s just like the Oklahoma and the Texas laws. Those are just too extreme.
IB: “What is something you would like for people that are pro-life to know about abortion?”
PW: “I think there are two things I would like for them to know. One is that there are regulations currently in existence. Some of those I might like and some of those I might not think are very good, but they’re already there so that responsible decisions can be made by the women who are carrying a fetus. The other thing I think is that there is sort of this sense that if you believe in God, if you’re a religious person, then you must be pro-life. We like to think, along with that, comes responsibility for lives that we bring into the world. Kansas is not always so good at supporting mothers and young children, and that’s part of the responsibilities. If you’re going to vote for this amendment, then you need to be in favor of expanding Medicaid, you need to be in favor of increased Pre-K/childcare. There’s a host of things that have to happen if you’re making these decisions for families that can’t make their own decisions because of these extremist laws.”
IB: “Pro-lifers argue that they are not taking away a woman’s right to choose, but rather saving an innocent life from being murdered. They also argue that women have plenty of time to make choices before getting pregnant including choosing to have sex, choosing to use protection, choosing to take plan B, and choosing their sexual partners. What are your thoughts on this argument?”
PW: “I think that ignores the reality that the fact that legal abortions are actually a piece of a woman’s choice to bring a child into the world, and that it is an important part of how we have wanted healthy children.”
Ian Brannan: “Why are you pro-life?”
Pro-life protestor Amy Baughman: “I think once a baby is made it shouldn’t be destroyed, and there’s lots of other options besides killing the baby.”
IB: “What is something you would like for people that are pro-choice to know about being pro-life?”
AB: “That there are other options, and, obviously, they’re out there. There’s accountability, too. Even if you do decide to terminate your pregnancy, later in life you’re going to regret it. There’s probably a lot of times you’ll regret it later. There’s plan B, there are other options. We’re not talking about some coat hanger. There are other options. Some lady was saying last night, ‘Do you want us to go back to coat hangers and back alleys?’ It’s not going to go back to that, there is plan B now. So, I think there are other options now. We have come a long way and we know more than we did, and a lot of people want babies, so, even if you get pregnant because of a rape, you could still put the baby up for adoption.”
IB: “People who are pro-choice have made the connection of those who are pro-second amendment who say, ‘You can’t ban guns, you can only ban good people from getting guns,’ by saying, ‘You can’t ban abortions, you can only ban safe abortions.’ What are your thoughts on this? Do you feel like this is a good connection to make?”
AB: “I don’t think it’s a good connection to make. Guns are an object for starters. Like I said, there is plan B. It is interesting. I haven’t heard the two compared ‘til now. I’ll have to think some more about it.”
Ian Brannan: “Why are you pro-choice?”
Minister at the Unitarian Universalist Congregation of Lawrence, Kansas Reverend Shelley Page: “Our faith, our Unitarian Universalist faith, very strongly calls us to recognize the worth and dignity of every person. Part of that is trusting individuals to make good decisions about having complete bodily autonomy. We hold that as a sacred part of our faith. We believe that it is a basic human right, and so the issue with this particular vote coming up on August 2 is that it puts any choices about anything to do with our reproductive lives in the hands of legislatures instead of in the hands of individual Kansans, which is currently part of the Kansas Constitution. So, we would like to maintain that.”
IB: “What is something you would like for people that are pro-life to know about abortion?”
RSP: “We’re all in this together. I think that our reproductive lives are inherently sacred and inherently complicated. There’s not a one-size fits all kind of approach that is good for every single situation that has to do with our reproductive lives and our reproductive health. So, whether it is a woman whose life may be in danger because of something that’s gone really horribly wrong with the pregnancy. These are not theoretical. These things happen. Whether it’s the ability of that person and their doctor, their minister, whoever, their partners, the people closest to them, the people they trust, for them to make that decision, not someone sitting in Topeka making broad brush statements about what’s right for everyone. And that’s just one example. As I said, our reproductive lives are complicated. So, we need to preserve the right for every Kansan to make this decision in a thoughtful manner and a prayerful manner for themselves. I don’t know anyone, and I can honestly say that, I don’t know anyone who has ever made a decision about this kind of thing to be taking it lightly in any way, shape, or form. The other thing, too, is that some of the laws that neighboring states have put into place would call into question women who are already in tremendous physical, spiritual, and emotional pain from miscarriages and stillbirths. They do not need to have additional pain put onto them with their integrity and possibly their ability to not be arrested or something put on them on their time of grief. Usually there is great sorrow. And I can say as someone who has had a stillborn child, my first born, this is very real, and I wouldn’t have wanted to have anyone question anything about what went on with that very tragic loss of a much wanted child. Therefore, sharing all this to say, it’s important to maintain this right for all Kansans to make these decisions, and when I say, ‘all Kansans,’ it’s not just women, it’s also other people with uteruses who happen to get pregnant.”
IB: “One thing that pro-lifers have been saying is that ‘My body, my choice,’ went out the window after the COVID pandemic where many people on the left were wanting mandates for vaccines to be put on everybody. What are your thoughts on this?”
RSP: “That’s apples and oranges to the max. It is total apples and oranges. We’re talking about a major public health threat that affected millions upon millions of people. Where public health officials were making the best choices they could make to keep all of us safe. That is very different than anything to do with personal, private decisions about bodily autonomy in regards to one’s reproductive health.”
Ian Brannan: “Why are you pro-life?”
Pro-life protestor Michelle Eagleman: “I believe, as a Christian, there really is no alternative. I believe that if we are going to be pleasing to God, if we are going to be subject to God, we must stand up for life, because He is the Author of Life.”
IB: “What is something you would like for people that are pro-choice to know about being pro-life?”
ME: “I do not think that the argument for repenting would go over very well with this crowd because there are many who would not agree that there is objective Truth. There are people out here who will believe in subjective truth. I believe in objective Truth but I don’t think that argument will go over very well, but I do think pro-choice people need to understand that this amendment, ‘Value Them Both,’ does not ban abortions, and what I’m hearing from the speakers today is a lot of lies. I’m hearing that immediately in this legislature they’re going to ban all abortions and even in the most extreme cases criminalize people who do it. I think that is a lie and a scare tactic. It is not a ban on abortion, what it does is correct a 2019 ruling by the Kansas Supreme Court, which is a very activist progressive Supreme Court, who found after 170 years or so in the Kansas Constitution, a clause that allows abortion to be completely unregulated. So, all these pro-choice people need to realize that with the way things are, completely unregulated abortion means late-term abortions. It means clinics that, and I can’t say this for sure, but perhaps clinics are not checked. Kids who are minors are not required to have their parents’ consent. So, the health of a mother might be in jeopardy if these clinics are completely unregulated. So, pro-choice people need to realize that, number one, we have three abortion clinics in Kansas as of 2019, and the most likely thing that’s going to happen with our legislature, basically having the same composition as them, is that we’ll go back to having three abortion clinics in Kansas. So, this is not an all or nothing proposition. The statement on their signs indicate that this is a ban and it’s not. It just allows abortion to be regulated like it was in 2019.”
IB: “People who are pro-choice argue that those who are pro-life only care about the baby up until it is born and then don’t care after that, sometimes disliking the baby if it later comes out as LGBT. Can you understand why pro-choice people may feel like this? Do you think pro-life people could do more to make pro-choice people feel like this is less true?”
ME: “I don’t know what that is based on, that somehow people who are pro-life somehow care about unborn babies more than they care about them afterwards. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. As far as those same people, what are they advocating for after birth that would imply that somehow, they are anti-children? So, I don’t know. I heard a lady yesterday, because we were over in front of Watkins with our signs, that said we don’t have orphanages. We don’t have a place for these babies to go. What are we going to do about that? And I would say that we have fifty states, and there are obviously states that are trying different approaches to how this might go down and we can experiment. We can figure out how to serve—I don’t believe a baby is unwanted. I just don’t believe that. However, she has a point. We may need other safety nets to take care of children who truly may be at risk. So, that’s one thing that, hopefully, other people would acknowledge and realize that we have a need to step up and fill the gaps. That’s not an insurmountable problem.”